Turning Problems Into Progress

Marki Costello

Welcome to Titans and Tangents, where big conversations meet the side roads that usually tell the real story, right, guys? Today's guest is Alex Johnson II, the current mayor of Albany, Oregon.

He was reelected by a city that knows him as approachable, direct, and willing to keep the doors open when the hard questions show up.

In 2025, the Oregon Mayor's Association recognized that work with the Mayor's Leadership Award for large cities, for leadership on housing, public safety, and the continued revival of the Albany waterfront.

On this episode, we're going to talk about what it takes to be a leader, grow a city, how you balance vision with potholes, literally. And what happens when public service stops being a title and starts becoming a daily street-level conversation.

Scott Kemp

I love potholes.

Marki

This is Titans and Tangents.

Marki

Alex, welcome to the pod.

Mayor Alex Johnson

Well, thanks for having me today. I appreciate that, and I loved the intro. It was wonderful.

Marki

It's our pleasure.

Scott

She said a lot of good things about you.

Mayor Johnson

Yes, she did. I'm like, "Wow."

Scott

Are they all true?

Mayor Johnson

I think we'll call my wife.

Marki

We're going to verify everything with your wife.

Scott

That's right.

Marki

This is also Scott Kemp, owner of Titan Podcasting Studio in the heart of Corvallis, Oregon. And this episode is sponsored by Titan Podcasting.

Scott

Titan Podcasting.

Marki

But let's have some cool conversations about where we are in this crazy world. I just was reading something online about how in Corvallis, they're going to close CV High School and try to combat—

Scott

That's crazy.

Marki

It's crazy.

Scott

I never would have thought that was going to happen.

Marki

You wouldn't? Why?

Scott

No, because cities want to grow. They want to add high schools. They don't want to shut them down. That's usually a really bad sign when they're shutting down high schools.

Marki

Well, okay.

Mayor Johnson

Especially high schools. Because elementary schools feed into them.

Scott

That's insane.

Marki

So why is this happening? Why are we having— is it no one's making babies? What?

Mayor Johnson

Well, there's a combination of a lot of things, and one of the things is that HP used to be the major driver here. Now Oregon State's there as well. But when cities contract, some things have to stop. A very perfect example, when the USS Ranger left San Diego, they had to close seven schools.

Because so many sailors had to leave, and they supported those schools. And so same thing's happening here. In Albany, we're blessed in that we're building housing of all economic levels. That means a person can rent a house, rent apartments, buy a townhome.

One of the neighborhoods that just started, 1,645 square foot townhome. The top floor's a loft. Three bedrooms, two bath. They actually pay for your refrigerator, washer, dryer, oven, and dishwasher. 330 bucks. 330,000.

Scott

Wait, how much?

Mayor Johnson

330.

Scott

That's like almost a tear-down here in Corvallis.

Marki

Well, let's talk about that. And I had a realtor on earlier on a podcast, and we were talking about the difference between Albany and Corvallis. I'm in Albany all the time. It's a hop, skip, and a jump.

Mayor Johnson

You should be.

Marki

And so many people that work in Corvallis live in Albany.

Mayor Johnson

Yeah, they all do. Jump community.

Marki

Why is it, because this is a college town, why is there such a $100,000 difference in something—$330,000 in Albany than here? Where are we with housing and homeless—

Mayor Johnson

Well, with me, I'm a list person. Coming from being a veteran of the United States Navy, I learned to make lists. I have lists from way back. Well, the thing about it is is that my lists drive me.

Scott

I like that.

Mayor Johnson

So before I go to bed at night, I actually make the list for the next day. So I have my business, my city, my personal stuff. I have this list, and I have codes for each one. TFS is True Life Financial Solutions. ACCM is Albany City Council Mayor. 1305 is my home address.

So I have these lists, and I work down those lists. The things I must get done are the top five. Things I'd like to get done are the next five. And the last five are things that if I get to it, I get to it, but I'd like to get it done sometime this week. And I work that way with everything that I do.

So if you ask me for my list for the day, you can look at my binder, and it shows the things that I want to get done. And I just go down and knock those things out.

But the goal for me is to accomplish something every day, accomplish something meaningful every day, whether it's city, whether it be personal, whether it be with my business. I know I have to make 25 birthday phone calls. I can make 25 birthday phone calls. I need to send out 15 birthday cards.

I handwrite 15 birthday cards, and my office manager sends those out. If I have to go down and sign documents at the city, I make sure I put that in there. I go down and sign documents at the city. And it works well for me because I have a sense of accomplishment. At the end of each day, something really got done.

And I have fun doing it. And so I challenge myself to make that next list. If it doesn't get done that day, I put an arrow next to it, show it to the next day. So I'm constantly working on my lists. For example, we talked about housing.

When I first got elected mayor, when I first was elected to city council, I started going to meetings. My first meeting was four or five hours long, and I didn't feel a sense of accomplishment. So what I did was I started making a list of things I would change if I were ever elected mayor.

And so when I decided to run for mayor, that list was 85 things long. Seriously, I put a piece of painted paper before it, Stack Tacked it, and started writing.

Scott

I'm guessing you didn't want five-hour meetings anymore.

Mayor Johnson

That's one thing. So you're going to hear about this. So the thing about it was, that list was my actionable items. I need to get these things done. If I were ever elected mayor, these are the things I would fix. But what I did was I started synthesizing them down, I grouped them.

So I had 15 things I wanted to get done. The very first thing on that list was effective meetings. Efficient meetings. So my first change was I gave that to staff. We moved the meeting time from 7:15 to 6:00 because the last bus runs at 7:30. So we're disenfranchising folks by having it at 7:15.

Second thing was a three-minute time limit on speakers. If you're going to send us a whole bunch of stuff, send us the information in an email and then summarize your important points. And the last thing was I got rid of the comfortable chairs.

Marki

You wanted them to be uncomfortable, so they'd want to get the heck out of there.

Mayor Johnson

I basically run my meetings like it being a night meeting. Let's get this done. This is the people's meeting, not your meeting. Let's go down the agenda, let's get these things done, have business from the council, turn it over to the city manager, I'm going to adjourn the meeting.

So if you watch one of my meetings, my very first meeting as the mayor was 44 minutes long. Very first.

Scott

Versus five hours?

Mayor Johnson

Versus five hours.

Scott

Oh my gosh.

Marki

And no one has the bandwidth in 2026 for five hours. No one has the bandwidth.

Mayor Johnson

No, but that's ridiculous. And focus, also.

Marki

And focus. No.

Mayor Johnson

So you start a meeting at 6:00 and it goes till 11, people are not happy. But if you start a meeting at 6:00 and it goes to 8:30, people still not happy. Let's go to 7:30. Let's get down to the agenda.

Marki

I would be fine if you started at 6:00 and were done by 6:10. I would be golden.

Mayor Johnson

But you know what?

Marki

I'm a Sagittarius, I have no patience. I want to get to it.

Mayor Johnson

My shortest meeting with a full agenda was 26 minutes.

Scott

Oh, my gosh.

Marki

Perfect. Everything that we need to get done can be done. Now, I want to back up a tiny bit, because how did you become the mayor? How did this all come to be?

Scott

Because your background is not...

Mayor Johnson

Had no idea, right? So my city councilor was my next-door neighbor. And so the marijuana issue was coming to Albany from the Willamette Valley, and my son was visiting. I'm at home, he's next door. So three generations, we're 20 years older than each other, right?

So he says, "I'd like to talk to you about this issue we're dealing with." Well, my son and I, with him, over a two-week period, end up going through this packet, and we're putting out what we thought about what should happen. He's 20 years younger than me. Let's figure that out.

Anyway, I went to that meeting, and I was like, "What the hell's going on?" It was one of those meetings, like, "Really? This is how things run?" So I started going to the next meeting, and I went to a planning commission meeting, then I went to a budget meeting.

So my office manager goes, "You're spending a lot of time at these government meetings." I said, "I want to find out what's going on with the city." I didn't know. I've been there 30 plus years. I had no idea. Or actually, 26 at the time. And so what I did was, I was making the city part of my learning, my education.

So I went to basically Alex University. I'm going to go find out about my damn city. And lo and behold, Norma started seeing that I was going to these meetings on purpose. I was very intentional about it. And my wife got used to the idea of, "He's going to the planning commission meeting tonight."

"He's going to the budget meeting tonight, going to the airport meeting." And doing that, I started learning that there's got to be a better way. There's got to be a better way. And so what I did was, my next-door neighbor says, "Oh, by the way, in 2018, I'm not going to run for office again."

So I've been going to meetings for like 10 months. He goes, "I'm not going to run for office again." I said, "Well, who's going to replace you?" And he goes, "I was hoping you would."

Scott

I like that.

Mayor Johnson

So he set the hook, right? I'm like, "You son of a..." So he goes, "Go talk to your boss." So I went and talked to my wife, and I said to Norma, we've been married, together, 42 years.

Marki

Talk to the boss, the wife. Got that.

Mayor Johnson

And so with her, it was, "I know how you are. If you get elected, you're going to go in with both feet. And I will do the big stuff. I won't do the small stuff, because I'm a butterfly." I talk to everyone. And I do that because one of my big things is get up, dress up, and show up.

So if there's something going on at a school and they invite me, I'm going. If there's a home show, three-day or a weekend, I'll go Thursday, I'll go to every booth and introduce myself.

Marki

You dressed as a mushroom at an event.

Mayor Johnson

Yes, I did. Mushroom King.

Marki

You dressed as a mushroom. I love that.

Mayor Johnson

The mayor of Mushroom Town.

Marki

The mayor of Mushroom Town. I love that.

Mayor Johnson

Oh, that picture. People love that picture.

Marki

Loved it.

Scott

Yes.

Marki

Loved it. Yeah.

Scott

Or if we call him and say, "Hey, we'd like to have you on a podcast."

Marki

Boom, you're there.

Mayor Johnson

Here I am.

Scott

It's our first podcast episode for Titans and Tangents.

Marki

It is.

Mayor Johnson

Elected officials get the title and don't accept the work that goes with it. So for me, it's not by just the title, it's the service that goes with that. And so I want everyone in my city to understand that your mayor is accessible. Your mayor will answer the phone or call you back. Your mayor will meet with you.

And I don't have an office at City Hall, and people are much more comfortable coming to my business office than going downtown, because small towns, everybody sees who's walking into City Hall. And somebody is watching. But one of the joys for me, honestly, is little children are our future.

And the things that I'm doing in Albany's not for me. And I tell them this, "This is for you." I'm a 60-year-old man. Average age to death for a Black man is 77, 78 years old. If that. Plus I'm overweight, and I stay up all night working on stuff.

But the thing is, is that I want those young folks to outstart their world, go to college, get that first job somewhere else, and then go, "Let's go visit grandma and grandpa" with their kids. Go and say, "I want to move back home. Because the mayor said this is for me.

The mayor came to our classroom and said, 'This is for me.'"

Scott

Our kids grow up here in Corvallis, they have to leave Corvallis. They can't afford to live in Corvallis. How sad is that?

Mayor Johnson

I'm happy you told me that. So Hayden is building a smaller footprint home, kind of like your starter homes back in the '70s. Smaller footprint homes, 1,158 square feet, get it for less than 340,000.

Marki

Really?

Mayor Johnson

Brand new.

Scott

Crazy.

Marki

So why so much of that happening with housing in Albany, but not in Corvallis?

Mayor Johnson

So the second thing on my list was the strategic plan. It had not been touched materially since 2007. Well, that's a problem for me, because I like being held accountable. So what we did was, I proposed that we redo the strategic plan completely. Just go through it, bang it up, tear it up.

But the accountability component, they give us a report card every year. So once we got the first report card in 2023, then we go back out to the city and I talk to people about what we said we're going to do, and how we performed against that.

So every year we get a report card, and every four years we have to go through it as a complete run-through. And it's good for me because I can show people, "I said I was going to do this, and this is the results." And so their confidence is a lot higher that I'm going to do what I said I'm going to do.

Scott

But how are you getting the housing prices so much lower in Albany versus Corvallis? What are you doing?

Mayor Johnson

So the third thing on that list is a housing affordability task force. We literally took apart the housing apparatus in Albany. Permitting fees, cost structures, system development charges. System development charges in a lot of cities is set at a level that makes it impossible to build smaller footprint homes.

Scott

That's right.

Mayor Johnson

What my proposal was to tier the SDCs. So basically, this house is 1,000 square feet, costs less than a house of 3,000 square feet.

Marki

But why do they make it— Why can't you build a small home? Why?

Scott

The fees are so high.

Mayor Johnson

Because the fees are so high. So if you have a flat rate—

Scott

A developer can't make a profit.

Mayor Johnson

So you have a flat rate of, say, $30,000 to connect a 1,000 square foot house to the city, and 45,000, $50,000 to connect the 3,000 square foot house. Nobody's going to build small homes. They're going to build big ones. A better return on investment.

So what we did, I had 11 of the developers and the engineering firms in my office during COVID. We've got masks on. We're all spread out. And I said, "I'm going to propose this. If I become mayor, I'm going to propose this." And they said, to a person, "If you do that, we're going to build."

Marki

And boom.

Mayor Johnson

Bingo.

Scott

And they do.

Mayor Johnson

And they're building.

Scott

They have so many new developments, and we go take pictures of that.

Mayor Johnson

That's why I said the development tour. I think you'd love it. And this is something else. With the affordable housing component, a lot of cities are going overboard with affordable housing. We're doing everything.

So we have low-income housing going in, farm workers housing development corporations building their first 54 units. Two and three-bedroom apartments, and ones also. The next phase is 100. And then right next to that, so Hayden's building small footprint homes in Albany. They're building some single family.

That's a normal 1,200, maybe 2,500 square foot, but they're building some that are 850, 600 1,100 square foot homes.

Scott

Nobody's building that size here.

Mayor Johnson

And so First Story is a group that works with Hayden. They're a nonprofit. And every year I've given away a home. And so I gave a home to a young couple about three months ago, and then for as long as they can pay the mortgage, everything else is covered. They can move into that home. It's their home.

Marki

That's amazing.

Mayor Johnson

So that is one of the things that I celebrate inside. Like—

Marki

Is that your legacy, would you say?

Mayor Johnson

No, my legacy is the children.

Marki

Your legacy is the children.

Mayor Johnson

Because these kids, I will be sitting with some, maybe next week or next month, sitting with you at a restaurant outside or inside, and kids will walk up to me and say, "Hi, Mayor. How you doing?"

Scott

I've seen that.

Marki

And I hope the restaurant's Brick and Mortar because that has the best breakfast ever.

Scott

Yes.

Mayor Johnson

And our carousel.

Marki

Oh, and your carousel's so pretty. And the Pix Theatre—

Mayor Johnson

Oh, Pix Theatre. We have a lot of gems.

Marki

I went and saw "Devil Wears Prada" the other day. I'd never been there.

Mayor Johnson

You've been to Monteith Park?

Marki

No, but I went to the carousel, I went to Brick and Mortar. I go to Target all the time, but I've never been on the other side really, so I ventured out over there. I took Highway 20 all the way up.

Scott

Yeah. They have a summer concert tour or series.

Marki

Albany's happening, man.

Mayor Johnson

Our art festival's coming. So they just released the first five concerts, or the first four concerts, for the upcoming River Rhythms, and it's exciting. And people come from all over.

Scott

Mm-hmm. And laying in the grass and the blankets.

Mayor Johnson

And laying in the grass, blankets.

Marki

So what, do we have a mayor in Corvallis? Who is in charge here?

Scott

We're bringing Alex.

Marki

Who is in charge?

Scott

We're kidnapping Alex.

Marki

I want to chat with them. Alex, what the heck is wrong with the Corvallian mayor?

Mayor Johnson

I don't— I'm... Charles—

Scott

I know what's wrong.

Mayor Johnson

Mayor Maughan's a good guy. He really is. I think part of Corvallis is—

Scott

It's anti-growth. They do not—

Mayor Johnson

Well, not just—it's not him. It's the city.

Scott

It's anti-growth.

Marki

They are. Because my son had a 16-year-old at Corvallis High, and they did like a whole book report last year on why big box.

Scott

It's anti-growth. They do not want growth.

Marki

They won't let a Target here. They won't let a... You know.

Mayor Johnson

Check this out.

Marki

Why?

Mayor Johnson

You cannot buy a baby seat, a baby carriage—

Marki

No, you can't.

Scott

You cannot buy children's clothing in Corvallis.

Marki

In Corvallis.

Mayor Johnson

You gotta go to Albany. Thank you.

Scott

Children's clothing.

Mayor Johnson

Bring your money. I'm hoping—

Marki

I know, but explain to me, you're a college town here. You have a gorgeous campus, Oregon State University.

Mayor Johnson

Beautiful campus. Beautiful.

Marki

Beautiful. You've got vets, engineers. You've got a great football and sports team and gymna— Explain to me do they want us driving to Albany?

Mayor Johnson

Baseball. Yes.

Marki

Because that's where I go now. I'm just like, "Screw it, I'm going to Albany, Albany, Albany."

Mayor Johnson

So one of the things I notice different between the two cities is that they have nine wards. So we only have three. And each ward has two city councilors, the A and B side. And my term's only two years. So every two years I run with three of my councilors. For me, I'm okay with that.

A lot of mayors don't like two-year terms. Well, I like two-year terms, and this is why. If I'm tired at the end of that first year, I don't have to run for office again. If I have the energy to go another two years, then I can do that.

But for me, it works better for my psyche and my peace of mind, knowing that if I'm burned, I don't have to reapply. Because that's what you're doing. You're applying for a job. You've got to go out there and tell folks why you're best for the job, and then they elect you.

For me, it's if I'm doing my job, if I'm doing the things I said I was going to do, if I'm serving my community at the highest levels as far as my commitment that I've made to the city, they'll reelect me. You know, they will say, "You know, Alex, you got this. Keep it going."

Marki

Right. Right. We like what you're doing. Keep it going.

Scott

What I like, too, I mean, politicians usually don't have a great name, right? Let's just be honest there. He's got his own business. He's got a side business. He doesn't need this. He doesn't need the kickbacks. Not that you're getting kickbacks.

Mayor Johnson

No, I'm not.

Scott

But he's... I remember when I first met Alex, like, "You're different." We need more people like you in politics. You know, I—

Marki

You going to go up a level or?

Mayor Johnson

No, I promised my... So my wife and I have been together since we were 17, 17 years old. We got married at 19. You know, so military time, being away on long cruises and stuff, she has paid her dues. So I ask her permission to run again. So every two years I ask her permission to run again.

And so at the end of that, my city council second year, I was at the point where I actually wrote a resignation letter. And I said—so every smart man says, "Can you take a look at this before I turn this in?"

Marki

Right.

Mayor Johnson

And so I wrote the resignation letter, and I handed it to her and she goes, "What is this? My husband doesn't quit anything." And she tore it up. Boom.

Marki

Why did you want to quit?

Mayor Johnson

Because it was killing me. It was costing me business because open enrollment's October 15th through December 7th. Well, those are your big meetings during the end of the year. You're spending four hours in a meeting. You get out of the meeting at 11:00. By the time you decompress and go to bed, it's 1:00.

You've got to be up at 6:00 for that first appointment in the morning. So I'm losing money. So for me, it was lose money, burnout, not come home until 1:00 in the morning because I'm staying up late to take care of clients. I'm not just in Oregon, I'm in 23 other states.

So, I've got clients that don't care what time it is. They want to get their stuff done. I have a client in Florida named Crazy Joe. He calls me every year.

Marki

Crazy Joe.

Mayor Johnson

Every year. I love him dearly. Every year. I'm serious, every year. 6:00 in the morning, he calls me, Florida time.

Scott

Wait, so it's 3:00 in the morning?

Mayor Johnson

It's like 3:00 in the morning. I say, "Joe, what time is it?" He's like, "Oh."

Scott

You literally answer your phone, though, all the time.

Marki

But why though? Okay. Call me cuckoo bananas, but I don't understand, why do you have to re-enroll once a year in Medicare? Why?

Mayor Johnson

You don't have to. You don't have to. So what I do is, if a client says, "I'd like to see what else is available," we will do a quick review. Whether we do it Zoom or in person, we'll do a quick review. If his plan looks better than everything, we'll just let it ride.

Some people that move here from other places, they got 30 days or 40 days to change. So every year we'll just take a look. If there's no need to change, we just let it roll. But say like Samaritan, they left the market. Well, now I've got—

Marki

Why did Samaritan leave the market?

Mayor Johnson

Medicare Advantage is complicated. It is a complicated process, and if you have—

Marki

But it seems like they'd be making money.

Mayor Johnson

Well, there's a whole—

Scott

Insurance. That's a whole conversation.

Mayor Johnson

There's a whole conversation.

Marki

Did you hear, wait, on insurance, you know that in the state of California, they're thinking of literally not letting State Farm write policies there anymore?

Mayor Johnson

Oh, because of the fires.

Marki

Fires. And they've been paying out like 70% versus 100%. And then Omaha, Nebraska, the same thing, tornadoes.

Mayor Johnson

Mutual of Omaha.

Marki

Yeah. So people would go, an adjuster would come out, and they'd be like, "Your ceiling's fine." And they're like, "There's a hole in it." And they're like, "No, your ceiling's fine." So the attorney general, they're literally suing these insurance companies to say, "These people pay you."

Mayor Johnson

If insurance companies were not publicly traded, you wouldn't have this problem.

Marki

Right. Well, what is the problem? Explain it to me. I mean, State Farm used to be this gold standard.

Mayor Johnson

Because the board of directors, they have stockholders. Right? And they have—

Marki

Big business.

Mayor Johnson

Big business.

Marki

Big Pharma, big business, big insurance.

Mayor Johnson

So, there's companies, Aetna owns CVS. So, if you own the whole supply chain, you set your prices.

Marki

Monopoly.

Mayor Johnson

You set your prices. If we get big business out of the health market, it'll be a lot better. Pharmacy benefit managers, get them out of the market, drug costs will come down. It's just the reality of it. And so for me, I advise, I provide information to candidates that are running for higher office.

I take them through a whole Medicare training session. And I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican, I will sit down with you, and I will show you how Medicare works. I'll show you the pitfalls.

I'll show you how you fix it, because if the people in the federal government that are Medicare eligible had to use Medicare, it'd be fixed by next Friday.

Marki

No.

Mayor Johnson

I mean that.

Marki

I know, and we have a primary coming up. This is tangents. We're on a tangent. But we have a primary coming up. It's so important that we vote, right? But I was going through my ballot, right, and a lot of people have no one running against them.

Mayor Johnson

So this is the thing. On social media, people will attack you nonstop.

Marki

Stop, right.

Mayor Johnson

And I referee football, right? And softball. So, no matter what, I was constantly under attack. As the mayor of Albany, I still get people upset with me. However, I love my clients. They say, "Here's his phone number. Give him a call." Those people usually don't call.

Marki

Right. No, they don't, because they're scared.

Mayor Johnson

Well, so for me, it's like somebody during my campaign for mayor the first time, somebody cut my flag up and threw it in the yard.

Scott

What?

Mayor Johnson

But I went on Facebook, and I forgave them.

Marki

Right. You have to.

Mayor Johnson

I said, "Here's my number. If you'd like to sit down and have a cup of coffee and discuss your concerns, let's do that." 14 flags showed up the next day.

Marki

Right. And haters, let me explain something to everybody listening right now. The algorithm doesn't know the difference between haters and lovers. They don't. You can hate all the way, and you're just feeding someone's algorithm to be like, "Oh, this person's getting tons of engagement."

They're not reading the comments, and they don't know the difference. So when someone hates on me, I'm like, "Bring it on. I love it." Because it takes way more to hate than to love.

Mayor Johnson

Yes. Agree.

Marki

I mean, right?

Scott

Well, I think it's easier for people to hate than to love.

Marki

You think it's easier? I don't. I think to hate someone you've never met takes a lot of energy.

Mayor Johnson

So for me, one of the things I use social media for is sharing Medicare information, but I also use it for sharing history. I love sharing history. I like sharing things like, I had a lady that met with me when I first got elected mayor. She had a notebook.

In that notebook, she had street lights that were out in her neighborhood. Streets were blocked by trees or bushes. There were stop signs that were up and then potholes and stuff like that. But I had no idea that on the city of Albany, on the light poles, there's a license plate.

You go to the license plate, you can go to PGE's website, or Pacific Power's website, you can report that light being out.

Marki

Ah.

Mayor Johnson

So I shared it on Facebook.

Marki

Right, and then everybody, boom. When I lived in Pacific Palisades in California, when I first bought my house, when it would rain the two weeks out of the whole year the street would flood a little bit. And I remember talking to my neighbor, they're like, "We've lived here 25 years.

The city won't do anything about it." I go, "Well, they haven't met me." I was relentless to that city councilman, to the point where after two and a half years of me he was like, "Marki, it's a million-dollar job."

Mayor Johnson

Ah.

Marki

"We don't have the money. It's a million-dollar job. We don't have the money."

Mayor Johnson

Find it.

Marki

And one day it was raining hard, and we rarely had rain like that, and this little old lady was driving this old Dodge Dart and she hydroplaned. And I ran out there with my phone recording all of it, because there's four schools at the end of the block. And I went to the city councilman, and he goes, "We're doing it.

We got the million dollars, Marki." You know what I mean? I was like, "Yep, because I'm going to spread..." I would be a great politician because— Well, I don't know. It'd be a lot of politics. I'd be like, "Well, how much is that worth to you? Just kidding, you can't do that. No pay off."

Scott

You have no filter, though.

Marki

I have no filter, yeah.

Mayor Johnson

Well, the thing about it is, if you respond, right— So my biggest thing, for my clients, is accessibility and then responsiveness. During the pandemic, I hosted an insurance summit, right? Insurance agents from all over the United States come on, 60, 70 people.

And one of the rules is if your phone rings, answer your damn phone. Answer your—it might be a referral. So this one guy, his phone was just buzzing, you could hear him. I'm like, "Dude, answer your phone." And it was a referral.

Scott

Oh, my gosh.

Mayor Johnson

I said, "So accessibility—accessibility is so important. Responsiveness, never lie to them. Be honest with them, and if you're going to show up, be there."

Marki

And I was calling some people recently for a podcast we were doing, and I was like, "This is their job. They don't know if I don't want to buy a $50 million house or 50—" And no one's responding and no one's texting back. I said, "No. That's unacceptable because you never know where something leads you."

I pick up every call. I return every call. By the end of the day, I'll be like, "Hey, I was busy. I'm glad I'm getting back to you." This younger generation, forget about it, they're all here and not— They get scared when they have to talk to a human.

Mayor Johnson

My grandfather told me, "When you stop worrying about money, you'll start making more money than you ever have." Just do the right thing.

Marki

Do the right thing, 100%.

Mayor Johnson

Show up. Answer your phone. Be at the meeting on time. Just be kind to people.

Marki

There was an accident off Peoria maybe three months ago and I was driving my son to lacrosse in Eugene and I was like, "No, we're going to stop, and we're going to help these people." And he goes like, "I'm going to be— Why do you always have to?"

And I go, "Because at the end of the day, Finney, I put my head on the pillow and know I did the right thing."

Mayor Johnson

Yes.

Marki

And then later, he was like, "That was really nice what you did." And I go, "Yeah, because imagine if that would've been you. Wouldn't you want someone to stop and help you?"

Mayor Johnson

Right. Well, Josephine Billings, and I agree with that. Josephine Billings said, 1909 or 1919, "To that person you may be..." Excuse me. How does it go again? I'm having so much fun here. "To the world, you may be one person, but to that one person, you may be the world."

Scott

You may be the world, yeah.

Mayor Johnson

Right. And I take that. When I sit down with a senior or a simple Medicare beneficiary or a client, they are my focus. And it's like, "Let's solve this problem today." And I tell stories about solving problems with my clients. I had a lady put in a prior authorization online almost a month ago.

She finally got frustrated and came to my office. We sat down, and she told me this story. I said, "Well, first of all, what did I tell you? You don't call them, you call me, and we will call them." I called the company, the carrier. I said, "Oh, this is Alex Johnson II. This is my writing number."

I gave them my writing number, and they said, "How may I help you?" I said, "Well, I have a client that put in a prior authorization. This is her date of birth." "Oh, okay. Just a minute." Texted it to her while sitting right in front of me.

Scott

Oh, my gosh.

Mayor Johnson

Said, "Miss, I'm so sorry for this. This should've been taken care of three weeks ago." And I just looked at her. I said, "See?" When they pull up my portal, and they see I got 400 clients with them, they go, "Oh my God. This guy's paying our bills."

Scott

See, I told you he'd be a good guest.

Marki

Great guest. When I looked at your social media, you need me to help you with your social media because all of this doesn't come through, and this is what needs to come through.

Mayor Johnson

And I've gotten so much feedback on that. But what's hard for me is that I have True Life, I have my city of Albany, the Mayor Johnson, then I have a few others that I participate in, but it's hard. There's only so much time in the day.

Scott

Yeah. What do you do in your free time? Do you have hobbies?

Mayor Johnson

Oh, I have a wife that needs my time. She's my girlfriend. She's my best friend. When I met her, I literally ran her over. She was one of the cheerleaders on the sideline. You know?

Marki

Where were you born and raised?

Mayor Johnson

I was born in Brawley, California.

Marki

Where is that, Brawley?

Mayor Johnson

So you know where San Diego is? It's 118 miles out in the desert. And three feet from Hell. There was a sign. Seriously.

Scott

That's funny.

Mayor Johnson

The funny thing is on Interstate 8, I think a Shell station's still there. There was a Shell station, right? So I'm coming down to visit my mom from San Diego, and the S had burned out. So I've been calling it—

Scott

It's Hell.

Mayor Johnson

I've been calling it Hell Central ever since.

Marki

So did you go to Brawley?

Mayor Johnson

And Brawley's 14 miles north of that.

Marki

Right after that, you went into the military.

Mayor Johnson

So I hurt myself in football, fractured my neck. It was a minor fracture, but I had to do a delayed entry program. So I basically worked, and then I went in a year later, took another physical, and they let me in the Navy. And we got married the next year in '85.

Scott

Is there such thing as a minor neck fracture?

Marki

I don't think so.

Mayor Johnson

Well, nowadays, people are having—

Scott

I think when you get a neck fracture, that's a major thing.

Mayor Johnson

Well, nowadays, guys are playing football the next year.

Marki

Oh, I know because now it's crazy technology.

Mayor Johnson

Technology.

Marki

It's insane. So then you served. Did you travel all over, being in the Navy?

Mayor Johnson

Ten years, 11 months, 14 days, and 5 hours.

Marki

How did you get here?

Scott

How many minutes.

Mayor Johnson

So I got here because the United States Navy wanted to transfer me to Japan for three years without my family. And that's a big non-starter.

Marki

Whoa. No, yeah, no.

Mayor Johnson

That's a big non-starter for me. My son was three.

Marki

Right, no.

Mayor Johnson

So I started looking for a job.

Scott

That's crazy.

Mayor Johnson

And so there's a West Tech job fair, and I ran into this guy named Ed Beal, worked at HP. Big guy, lovely guy, funny as all get out. We did like a pre-interview, a screening interview, and I sat down with him, and he goes, "Can I say something?" And he reached over and he took my tie, and literally took my tie off me.

He says, "You'll get it back at your next interview." So I come up for my interview and a month later, had a job offer.

Marki

And you got your tie back.

Mayor Johnson

Got my tie back.

Marki

God. What happened to HP here? Why? And what are they building next to HP? Jails? City—

Mayor Johnson

I think it's a city jail and courthouse and stuff like that.

Marki

Well, what's wrong with the courthouse and city jail downtown?

Mayor Johnson

Courthouse is old.

Scott

It's an old building.

Marki

It is, yeah. What will they do with the courthouse, make it a museum?

Mayor Johnson

That, or they might make use of it.

Scott

I've heard they're trying to do different things, and they can't come to a consensus yet. It's going to take a lot of money to retrofit it.

Marki

Maybe they can make it a bar.

Mayor Johnson

Like our old city hall is being made into an office building.

Scott

We have a connection. Did you used to work for either Tripod or Trimble?

Mayor Johnson

Tripod Data Systems became Trimble Navigation.

Scott

Did you know that Tripod bought my previous company that I was a co-founder with—

Mayor Johnson

Handheld?

Marki

This is my first time in the studio.

Mayor Johnson

Was it Handheld? No.

Scott

Penmetrics.

Mayor Johnson

Penmetric, okay.

Scott

That was me.

Mayor Johnson

I worked there almost nine years. Yeah.

Scott

I was part owner of that company.

Mayor Johnson

Yeah, I was working for Paul Harmon.

Marki

Nate, I'm doing a podcast. Let me call you right back.

Mayor Johnson

I worked with Paul—or for Paul Harmon doing projects.

Marki

Okay, bye.

Scott

We'll wait for you. You want to go get... Sorry.

Mayor Johnson

So I was doing projects for Paul Harmon, and one of the things I found out with Trimble is that I could work with companies to customize their product, our product, to fit their need.

Like my first project was with PG&E down in California, and they wanted to put this wand, and so I assembled a team, and the team got together, and we figured out the solution. And so it ended up being called Tactical Projects, instead of Strategic.

But the first project, the sales manager, the president of the company, the HR directors, and the engineering director, where Paul Harmon was in there, and the first order was $2 million. It took me six weeks to create this solution. Right, the team. And so that's when I started taking on those kind of projects.

And so over 50 projects, about $29 million came in just from people picking up the phone and calling me. So this is how I pitched it to Paul, was Paul Harmon, my boss, it was, "I hear Engineer Joe pick up line two.

Well, I'm getting coffee in the break room, and Engineer Joe picks up the phone, puts his headset on, programs this tool, puts one in the box, and sends it. No invoice, no record. These units are just flying off the shelf." Well, I showed my boss that. I said, "Hey, take a look at this."

He goes, "Okay, we need to fix that." So I came up with this process to make it official.

Marki

What could you say to the younger generation that's watching or listening to this right now about... they want to get more involved in what's happening in their city or their town, or they're disillusioned by... we see Trump in the news, and then one day we're there, here. He's calling people names.

And it's just bad form. What would you say to a young person to get them engaged in politics or making a change in their city or town, big or small?

Mayor Johnson

So let's start city. So what I recommend the young folks in Albany to do is reach out to me. Have your principal or have your teacher call me and have me come talk to the class about how the city works, how we make a decision on which roads to do, how we decide on what projects we're going to work on. Have me come...

How city council actually works. And sit down with them. And I will actually go through the strategic plan with them and show them, this is what we're working on for a healthy economy, this is what we're working on for a safe city. Great neighborhoods, right?

Marki

Right.

Mayor Johnson

Effective government. These are the things we're working on. Like when I tell the younger kids, the fourth and fifth graders, "Do you know every time you poop in the city of Albany, Oregon, we're making money?" He goes, "What do you mean?" "Because we compost 25% of our biosolids right now."

Marki

Really?

Mayor Johnson

We have our own soil. It's called Hub City Compost.

Marki

Really? Who came up with that?

Mayor Johnson

The staff.

Scott

You should have a slogan, "Poop for cash."

Marki

Poop for cash.

Mayor Johnson

And it's like—

Marki

When your poop goes somewhere. Like, weird Albany.

Mayor Johnson

So, and it's class—

Marki

Full of shit.

Scott

And proud of it.

Marki

And proud of it.

Mayor Johnson

And it's a class A soil, right? So we can sell it to other municipalities, other school systems. Matter of fact, when we got the award from League of Oregon Cities, they used my speech to the... Somebody narrated on the video they made. So I'm standing up there like, "Okay."

And I just basically said—it's a 30-second speech—and I talked about get to know your shit. But standing ovation. Standing ovation. It was amazing. But I'll send it to you.

Scott

I love that.

Mayor Johnson

But it was so much fun that other mayors have reached out to, "I need to understand, how are you doing this?" And I connect them with staff. Housing affordability task force. How are you building so many homes? Well, I'll send you information.

Scott

Have you thought about doing either lectures or courses for other for other mayors and things, for how do they fix their cities?

Marki

Like public speaking.

Scott

Have you thought about that?

Marki

Well, you're a titan, clearly. I mean, really.

Scott

Yeah. He's kind of figured it out, right?

Marki

You have it figured out. You're a titan in your community. I mean, you're aspirational, inspirational. I mean, yeah, you should be doing public speaking.

Mayor Johnson

So I do get invited to speak a lot. And I don't read speeches. I write an outline. So I have bullet points, and I fill a story in underneath that's germane to the situation I'm talking about. Like for Memorial Day, I have a speech coming up on the 29th or 30th. When I spoke at League of Oregon Cities, I talked about...

Because people ask me, "With the current world, how is it affecting you being a Black mayor?" I said, "Well, first of all, I'm not the Black mayor, I'm the mayor of Albany, Oregon." And I say that—people in my community have embraced my vision.

They've embraced my way of getting out in the community and connecting with the community. They have no fear of knocking on my front door saying, "Can we talk?" During my first campaign for city council, when I ran for mayor, I provide Medicare, older clients—five bucks. That's all I accept.

This lady showed up at my house 17 times with a $5 bill.

Marki

Five dollar bill, right.

Mayor Johnson

She gave me what she could. I wasn't asking, but this is something that is really important to me, is that I want everyone that lives in the city, no matter what party you're a part of—independent, striped, I don't care. Republican, Democrat—let's sit down and figure out what can make this city move forward.

If you have great ideas, let's stop talking and let's get to work.

Marki

Right. I love that.

Mayor Johnson

And I mean that. And this is the problem for me. I don't deal with extremes on either side, and I'm looking at my hands. So when did we learn that blue and red made purple? Pre-K? But this is what happens. You leave your home, you got external influences from one side, you start to get further and further apart.

Let's be purple together. I want us as a community to solve our problems together. And the only way we can be better together is to have meaningful conversations over a cup of coffee or a sandwich. And let's just sit down and talk. Let's figure it out. And no idea's a bad idea.

There's some that will be "not now" or "maybe later on," but what is the immediate solution for this particular problem?

Marki

Well, we are so divided. I was in the bank the other day, and I was talking to the teller, Timothy, and we're chatting, and we're talking about just something that happened in the news that day.

And the guy behind me starts to follow me out, and he goes, "Trump is the best president in the whole wide— He is the best at—" And I just looked at him, and I said, "Dude, let's agree to disagree. Cool. You love him, excellent." Meaning, I'm not passing judgment on you loving him, even though that's freaky.

No, I'm just kidding. I said, "I respect you loving him, but you have to respect me hating him."

Scott

I think we all need to be purple.

Marki

And I want to be purple. My point is, we are so divided that it's so crazy how people just cannot see. Look, are we going to get, do you think, with politics, more common ground?

Mayor Johnson

I think this is the thing. I think we swing so far to either side that—

Marki

Yes, the pendulum.

Scott

It's just social media.

Marki

Right. Social media makes it—

Mayor Johnson

We need elected officials—

Scott

Keyword warriors.

Mayor Johnson

We need elected officials who are going to bring in six degrees of either side of the center. We'll work with Republicans, we'll work with Democrats, but not the extremes. We all know the extremes cause problems. Well, let's stop being extreme. If you want to work towards the middle, let's sit down and talk.

And the way our system is set up right now, it doesn't allow for that.

Marki

No.

Mayor Johnson

Because there's so much money involved. Corporations are people. They have just as big a vote as just a normal person walking down the street. That needs to get fixed. The Supreme Court has swung so far to the right that there's no middle ground anymore. And their job is not to set policy.

Their job is to be arbiters of the law. Be fair and impartial. But right now, we're not there. And so, my thing is, is that I'm going to do what I can at this level to make things positive for my folks. Even though things are tight, and we have homeless folks. And homeless people call me and they ask me questions.

I go out and talk with them.

Marki

Do you have a lot of shelters for the unhoused and all this?

Mayor Johnson

We have a lot of shelters, but this is the thing.

Marki

They don't want to go into them.

Mayor Johnson

Some folks don't want to go in shelters. And I get—

Marki

Why is that? Because why?

Mayor Johnson

Because of barriers.

Marki

Because they can't do X, Y, and Z, and they have to be at a certain time?

Mayor Johnson

And not all cases. I know women that won't go to a shelter because of sexual assault. Or fear of sexual assault. So, there's many different layers to that onion, but the only—

Marki

Well, why not have female shelters only?

Mayor Johnson

There's sexual assault that happens there, too.

Marki

Really? Scary.

Scott

You watch much TV?

Marki

"Law & Order: SVU," Olivia Benson on the job.

Mayor Johnson

Olivia, I love her.

Marki

Me too. I love her.

Mayor Johnson

You know Donal Logue? I went to high school with him.

Marki

Really?

Mayor Johnson

Yes, I did.

Marki

"SVU" is my comfort TV show.

Mayor Johnson

Yeah. Not the only one.

Marki

And people go, "How weird is that?" Because Olivia, she gives you hope in humanity. Meaning everyone's story means something.

Mayor Johnson

But you remember how she started, though?

Marki

Yes.

Mayor Johnson

Her mother, Jayne Mansfield. She was in the back seat.

Marki

I know. Yeah. Her mother was Jayne Mansfield. Yeah.

Mayor Johnson

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Marki

And she watched her brother and father get decapitated.

Mayor Johnson

She's been through it.

Marki

She's been through it.

Scott

Oh my gosh.

Mayor Johnson

And so she's one of my heroes. I think she's amazing.

Marki

Do you know that "Law & Order: SVU" is the longest running—

Mayor Johnson

Yes, 27 years or something.

Marki

Yeah, some ridiculous amount. It's unheard of. And people say she is—

Mayor Johnson

A genuine—

Marki

—a pleasure.

Mayor Johnson

Yes.

Marki

You could be at that point.

Scott

I like her, but that show depresses me sometimes.

Marki

It's never depressing.

Mayor Johnson

But those things actually happen, though.

Marki

They do.

Scott

Yeah, a lot of them.

Marki

And there's always a good solution.

Scott

That's depressing, too, what happens.

Marki

I like to be engaged, enlightened, and educated. It educates me on like, wow, that's so crazy. Or sometimes they take something that was in the headlines. But I'm fascinated by the law and humanity and people. Yeah, I just feel like we do— Hopefully people listening or watching today realize that, you know what?

You can matter. I worry about this next generation because they're so— I tell this story. My son works at Chick-fil-A, and his first day here at Chick-fil-A I said, "Honey, when do you get paid? Once a week or every other week?" He goes, "How would I know that?" And I go, "Well, you would ask your manager.

You would open your mouth, and you would say—"

Mayor Johnson

"So when is payday?"

Marki

"When is payday?" Exactly.

Mayor Johnson

"And how often do we get paid per month?"

Marki

"And how often do we get paid?" He was like, well, my generation, if we can't ChatGPT it or Google it, we're not asking it because we don't want to look stupid. And that's what's scary about the next generation.

Mayor Johnson

Well, that's scary. So, I encourage my kids to be themselves. To be their authentic self. My children, we didn't just let the school dictate what they learned. When school was out, they had to read. For every hour they spent on a video game, they owed me a two-page book report.

Scott

Whoa.

Mayor Johnson

Seriously.

Scott

Holy mackerel.

Mayor Johnson

They had to give me a book report. And then I downloaded homeschool lessons. And they had to do math and science and geography every summer. They had to do— When we did a home project where we build a fence or build a patio, they had to cut and measure the whole nine yards.

My daughter, there's a video I posted a long time ago when I was remodeling our kitchen. I put luxury vinyl down, and my daughter came home from Portland, says, "Dad, you're tired. Go sit down." She did the floor.

Marki

Right. I love that.

Scott

I did a floor with my daughter. I mean, her kids.

Marki

You did?

Mayor Johnson

No, she did the floor.

Marki

She did the floor, right.

Mayor Johnson

I'm sitting there drinking a beer. She did the floor.

Scott

I made my daughter make her own beehives.

Marki

I love that.

Mayor Johnson

Yeah. My daughter—

Scott

So I showed her, "Here's how you cut it. Here's how you use a table saw, a chop saw." And then I just watched her.

Mayor Johnson

Safety glasses. Yeah, let's go.

Scott

Yeah. She made all them. She was so proud of them at the end.

Marki

And my kids are all— Yeah. I have OCD, so I don't let them clean too much because they do it, and then I have to redo it, so I might as well just do it the first time.

Scott

Sounds like my wife with me.

Marki

I'm very— Yeah.

Scott

She's like, "Don't bother making the bed."

Marki

"Don't bother making the bed."

Scott

"I'm just going to come back."

Marki

Exactly. But my kids all work very— Finn just got on a plane last week out of Eugene. Get on the plane by himself. I have a driver, Alfred, picks him up, boom, boom, boom, goes—

Scott

She has a driver.

Mayor Johnson

She got a great driver. Damn.

Scott

You've got a great story with your kid is now doing the job you did.

Marki

Yeah, my older son, Lucas, my company cast the very first season of the TV show "The Bachelor."

Mayor Johnson

Oh, wow. Okay.

Marki

And my son right now is, this week, Monday, he started working on the new season of "The Bachelor." He's casting it with Billy and Katie, and full circle moment because yeah, I never thought my kids would ever do what I do.

But Finn, my 16-year-old, he does a podcast here called "The Jump," but it interviews high school kids that are making the jump to college, from athletes to basketball. I like it. What's it like with NIL?

Mayor Johnson

NIL.

Marki

And how is it making the jump? Because I'm all about fostering what your kids are good at, right? But I'm also like, "Be independent, Finn. Look, nope, if you can stand on your knee and play lacrosse, then you can go to work. If you can do this, you can do that. If you want this, you got to do this.

If you want to drive that car that I pay that $3,000 a year car insurance on, you will figure out—"

Mayor Johnson

Figure out how to get gas.

Marki

"—a job to pay for gas." Otherwise, then you can't drive a $50,000 car. You can't. Go find some—

Mayor Johnson

I will tell you, the kids, my young adults, are amazing people. 6-year gap, 34 and 29, and watching the both of them with their lives. My daughter, she didn't want to play sports in college. She just wanted to go to school and go to work.

She started as a sophomore because of all her credits she had, graduated in three years. And she's now a department head for Kroger. And she's amazing. Interior design. She designed her clothes, and she went to Fashion Week. People thought she was a model. But she's the one that sees the—

Marki

The vision, yeah. Boom.

Mayor Johnson

Designs right. My son, I told him, "You're never making the money playing video games." Well...

Marki

Well, you can make a lot of money playing video games.

Mayor Johnson

So there's a game called Battlefield 4. He was the number one person in Albany, number one in Oregon, number one in the United States, and number one in the world.

Scott

What?

Mayor Johnson

So he monetized playing video games.

Scott

Oh, you can totally monetize.

Marki

You can totally monetize it. It's a big business.

Mayor Johnson

And there's an article in "The Wealthy Consultant." My son has his picture on the front page, and my friends are sending me, "Hey, man, did you see this article?"

Marki

I used to coach a bunch of the Riot Games, these kids that would play video games, and they were top-top-top, and they were sponsored by Riot Games. And they would go, "Marki, you've got to get them better on camera." They're so used to being here that they forget how to be here. But yeah, it's amazing.

But we've got to wrap up because we have gone so far over our time limit today because this has been so fun.

Scott

This has been awesome.

Marki

Me and Alex are going to do a podcast called "The Mayor and Marki."

Scott

You got a picture of your sons?

Marki

"The Mayor and Marki." Oh my God.

Scott

Wow, it's like on a magazine.

Marki

And handsome. Handsome to boot. "The Mayor and Marki," we're going to start doing a new podcast, "The Mayor and Marki." Stay tuned for it. I'm always about branding. Brand, brand, brand.

Scott

So do you have an election coming soon?

Mayor Johnson

Yeah, I have an election coming up.

Scott

Is anybody running against you?

Mayor Johnson

I don't know. But I run every election as if somebody is running against me. I have to show my community that I still want the job, I'm still excited about serving them. And so one of the things that I've done to save money is a lot of candidates put the date of the election, what year it is.

So I just put "Alex for Albany."

Marki

I love that.

Mayor Johnson

You know? And so my designer here in town, right over here, Corvallis Custom, put "Alex for Albany," and then for my city council, "City Council Ward 2." And when I decided to run for mayor, she just made me stickers for the first 150. I just threw a sticker party, come over there.

And so I literally, when I won the mayorship, it was amazing. I got calls to come pick up my sign, and they didn't want me to pick them up, they just had me sign them.

Marki

Can we say on the count of three, Alex for Albany? One, two, three.

Scott

Alex for Albany.

Mayor Johnson

Alex for Albany.

Marki

Yay. Vote, vote, vote. Get out and vote, Alex for Albany. You've got to. If you don't vote, you don't get to complain.

Mayor Johnson

There you go.

Marki

That's the bottom line.

Scott

So let's connect to our next guest, Jason Young, coming in. How did he help you with your—

Mayor Johnson

So BNI was wonderful in that they donated money, they got my yard signs done, my soft items done, my handout stuff. And they really pumped me up on social media. And so I had this cadre of 35, 40 people that were out there just, "Albany. Alex for Albany, Alex for Albany."

So it was really great to have Jason's support and the rest of the chapter's support.

Scott

We've changed it to Corvallis Business Network now.

Mayor Johnson

Yeah, I know that. Yeah.

Scott

So, and we've grown it almost 100% in eight months by—

Mayor Johnson

Good.

Marki

And if you want to do any media, I will come and we'll shoot some media, and we'll do some fun stuff.

Mayor Johnson

See, I'm actually looking for a campaign manager now.

Scott

I told you.

Marki

I'd be a great campaign manager. I could sell a blind man glasses. Alex for Albany. And if you don't vote for him, I'm coming to your house, and I'm going to and you don't want that.

Scott

And you don't want that. That's right.

Marki

You don't want a piece of me.

Mayor Johnson

And I believe you.

Marki

That's Titans and Tangents, and that's our podcast for today.

Scott

Yeah, thanks guys.

Marki

We'll see you next time. Bye.

Mayor Johnson

Thank you very much.