Thinking in Generations

Scott Kemp

Some businesses are built for the next quarter. Starker Forests has been built for the next generation. Today on Titans and Tangents, we sit down with Lizzie Marsters, CEO and president of Starker Forests, a fifth-generation family-owned forestry company rooted right here in Oregon.

Lizzie's path has taken her from federal land policy to global environmental finance to leading one of Oregon's longest-standing forestry companies into its next chapter.

And today, I promise you, you will hear forestry in a way you probably haven't heard before, not just as trees and timber, but as family, fire, water, wildlife, jobs, legacy, and decisions that can shape a community for decades. I'm your host, Scott Kemp, and this is Titans and Tangents.

Scott

Lizzie, thanks for joining us on the podcast today.

Lizzie Marsters

Thank you so much for having me.

Scott

Yeah, this weather is going to be awesome coming up, right? Like 90-degree temperatures.

Lizzie

90 degrees, which is not awesome weather for the forest.

Scott

Yes. I can imagine that. I predict kind of a brutal fall with the amount of rainfall that we had this spring, right?

Lizzie

We're seeing hot, high temperatures with little rainfall, which means fire season for us.

Scott

Yeah. I remember a few years ago, maybe four or five now, September was just orange everywhere, all day, every day for a month.

Lizzie

And that is our worst nightmare. And so we do a lot to try and prevent that from happening.

Scott

All right. So let's back up. You are with Starker Forests, right?

Lizzie

I'm with Starker Forests.

Scott

So you're the CEO, and relatively recently hired there, right?

Lizzie

I'm very new, starting this year.

Scott

Okay. So you came to Oregon for this job, or did you grow up in Oregon? Tell me the story there.

Lizzie

I came to Oregon. I took a summer internship when I was at school at Yale doing a joint degree in forestry and business.

Scott

Yale, that's...

Lizzie

All the way from the East Coast.

Scott

Oh my gosh.

Lizzie

And where is the best place on Earth to practice business and forestry but Oregon?

Scott

The Pacific Northwest.

Lizzie

I was so lucky. I went and visited in the summertime and traveled around all of Oregon, and I was like, "This is the most beautiful place to live."

Scott

It is beautiful.

Lizzie

And I decided to move here for a job, and that first winter, that was an awakening where I was like, "Oh. Oh, boy." Oregon is not just glory and sunshine the whole year round.

Scott

There's a reason it's green, right?

Lizzie

There's a reason it's green.

Scott

It's because of the water.

Lizzie

And I'm originally from Colorado. So Colorado grows snobs in terms of weather. We love our sunshine. And you go anywhere else in the country, and you can have something to complain about. But Oregon, I've been here since 2016, so I now call it home.

Scott

So you're not brand new to Oregon.

Lizzie

Not brand new.

Scott

So what did you do before Starker Forests?

Lizzie

Before Starker Forests, I've had a really diverse career. I've been very fortunate. My whole arc of my career has been working on natural resource issues. From the federal level, as you talked about, to global, working in international climate finance, as well as the local level.

And so prior to this, most immediately, I was working at the World Resources Institute, and I had two focuses there. One was in sub-Saharan Africa. How can we harness the power of nature to provide economic activity, to provide infrastructure in places where there wasn't much, and there's not a lot of money for it?

And so really thinking creatively about how to utilize natural resources as a means to providing that for communities. And then I was also very focused in the US West on catastrophic fire, how to help communities pay for and identify catastrophic fire risk across public and private lands.

Scott

We could do an entire episode on forest fires, right? It has completely changed. I think it has. There's forestry practices that are part of it. There's government policy that's part of it. Insurance companies are pulling out of entire states because of it. What do you do with power lines when they cause fire?

It's crazy, right?

Lizzie

It's crazy. And actually, it's one of the biggest risks that Oregon businesses have identified as one of the challenges that we're going to face going into the future, not just as a forest company but the state writ large. It is a huge deal. And we see it as a big risk to our business.

We have 96,000 acres of forest that we manage.

Scott

That's a lot. Have you done the math? How many square miles is that?

Lizzie

I have not done the math in square miles.

Scott

Let's see. I think it's 640 acres. So if it was 1,000, it'd be 96 square miles, but I'm going to say around 140, 150 square miles.

Lizzie

I'll take your word for it.

Scott

That's a lot.

Lizzie

It's a lot. But it's an incredible honor and privilege to steward this land. We take great pride in how we do it. And fire is one of those things we take very seriously.

So we take on six interns each summer and we train them and send them to fire school so that we can have additional capacity to address any fire on the landscape.

Scott

Now, do you guys have trucks and all that sort of thing?

Lizzie

We just bought another firetruck, so we have three firetrucks.

Scott

I saw a firetruck on Facebook. Did you buy that one?

Lizzie

We bought that one.

Scott

You did. Oh my gosh. That's awesome.

Lizzie

We were really lucky and got the bid. This just happened last night, so fresh off the news.

Scott

Oh my gosh. I saw that firetruck. I'm like, "I want a firetruck."

Lizzie

You do want a firetruck, but with it comes great responsibility.

Scott

Oh, yeah. And they're expensive to maintain and all that.

Lizzie

They're expensive.

Scott

We just shot a big video for the Albany Fire Department, and they're paying over a million dollars now for their new rigs. That's crazy.

Lizzie

Yes.

Scott

So that was not nearly that much.

Lizzie

It was not that much. We found it at a great deal, actually. And it's going to replace a vehicle we already have.

But one of the key things for us is we want to be one of the first responders to any fire on the landscape, whether it's on our property or adjacent properties, because a fire anywhere is a threat to all of us.

Scott

That's right. Yeah. We live out south of Corvallis, and we're out of any fire district. And so unless there's life on the line, they won't come. You call 911, they're like, "Sorry. Good luck." So all the farmers band together.

They all have their pumper trucks, and there's a call tree, and you call one, everybody calls each other, and within minutes, there's five or six homemade pumper trucks. Not nearly as nice as the one you just bought, but they're pouring water on the fire.

I was there, and our neighbor's barn caught on fire, and there was four or five rigs there within minutes.

Lizzie

That is fantastic. And that's what we want to see, and we have such a strong community here in terms of other forest landowners having their own rigs as well. Thompson Timber is one of them we work a lot with. We have a great relationship with ODF.

And it's something that is both something we take great pride in, in terms of preparation and being responsive to any fire, but also huge concerns.

Scott

So now let's talk about Starker Forests and 96,000 acres. It's been in the Starker family for a long time, right? How did that start?

Lizzie

We are celebrating our 90th anniversary this year.

Scott

Did they buy 96,000 acres, or did they just have a little bit and then just keep adding on, or what did they do?

Lizzie

It's one piece at a time.

Scott

One piece at a time.

Lizzie

It started with TJ Starker in 1936. I believe April 4th was the first property he purchased. And he has been growing it with the descendants of his family. We are now in the fifth generation of Starker family members.

Scott

That's cool.

Lizzie

It is great. Only 3% of family businesses make it this far. So it is incredible to think about how you pass on this legacy to the next generation, and it's something the Starkers have done really well. And the best way we've been sort of growing is slowly and through a lot of neighborhood relations.

And so we care very much how we are as a neighbor and showing up. And so oftentimes, the way we've accumulated more acres is our neighbors say, "Hey, we're ready to sell," either through a generational shift or ready to go. "Would you be interested in buying this? You are great stewards of the land.

We respect what you do, we know what you do, and we know you."

Scott

So would you say it's kind of like a patchwork of properties? Where does it range from?

Lizzie

So 1936, TJ was buying all across the state. You had Southern Oregon, more Western Oregon, and over time, we actually consolidated to be located more towards Corvallis and the Philomath area and Newport. The reason being is we wanted our foresters to have a work-life balance.

And so the rule was, "Let's not have the foresters drive more than an hour to reach our forests."

Scott

Well, that's great.

Lizzie

Yes.

Scott

It takes me two hours just to go camping.

Lizzie

And so we've been trading parcels ever since to try and create this perfect batch.

Scott

And I saw something on YouTube recently that Southern Oregon isn't a great environment for growing Doug fir. They just need more water than it can provide down there, from what I've seen. So this kind of area is ideal for it. And that's your main crop, is that right?

Lizzie

We have a multitude of species that we plant, but Doug fir is the primary one we—

Scott

Yeah, that's what pays the bills, right?

Lizzie

That's what pays the bills. And it is native here, and it grows really well here. We are doing some assisted migration plots, which means we're examining, with the understanding that maybe climate change is going to change our weather patterns here. We'll see less water.

We'll see more of what the Southern United States is experiencing, should any of those species be better off being planted here. And so we're doing some studies on assisted migration.

Right now, we're seeing the Doug fir continuously outperforming some of the other species from our southern friends, which just gives you confirmation that this is Douglas fir home. It's native.

Scott

Yeah. I love it. So managing a forest, there is so many different things to juggle, right? You've got profit. Every company is in business to make a profit, so you want to do that. You have environmental stewardship.

Tell me about some of these other factors that you guys have to deal with, with every decision that you make.

Lizzie

Environmental stewardship is one. One is caring for the natural resource. And one of the biggest challenges is we do long-term forestry, which means we are growing a crop for 60 to 90 to 100 years.

Scott

My goodness.

Lizzie

And so the crops we're planting today, or the trees we're planting today, we will hopefully not see their outcome. That'll be for the next generation. And so it's—

Scott

That's so crazy.

Lizzie

—long-term stewardship is really what guides us and our principles more so than anything.

Scott

Because you guys could cash out immediately, right? And just take a big bundle of cash, and clear cut the whole thing and move on, right? But you're not doing that, obviously.

Lizzie

We're not doing that. And that's one of the beauties, or I think one of the places where a family-owned business really aligns well with the incentives of a forest business. Where we want to see this in perpetuity for the Starker family, which means our timeline for management is long-term.

Scott

Yeah. And I can imagine if a big company-owned forest with shareholders and publicly owned, they want a return on their investment right now. At maybe the cost of we don't really care what it's going to be in 50 years. We want a three-year return. With a family, they're looking at 50 years, 100 years out.

Lizzie

Yes, exactly.

Scott

That's very different. So it's probably we wish more forests were owned by these family-run organizations, right? Because that is the long-term outcome that we want.

Lizzie

It's a tricky question. So I would say yes, I think Oregon having many of the acres in family-owned forest land has a really great outcome. Yet we all rely on the timber products that are produced from our forests, no matter who owns that forest. And so really thinking through, how do we also have affordable housing?

So much of our wood products helps to drive this economy.

Scott

That's right.

Lizzie

Think about the packaging that goes around toilet paper.

Scott

So many things use wood.

Lizzie

So many things.

Scott

It's crazy.

Lizzie

How do we keep that affordable? And so one of the key questions is how to ensure that we have the regulations in place, and I'd say we have them in Oregon, in terms of making sure we have environmental stewardship. Regardless of who owns it, they are required to enact high standards of environmental stewardship.

We have the privilege, because we are so long term, of growing a multitude of different products off of our trees that we grow. And that is our goal. So we are going to grow for utility poles as well as sort of these larger logs that can go into different products.

Scott

Mm-hmm. What's the average size that you'll harvest a tree at?

Lizzie

So typically it's not a size diameter that we'll go for.

Scott

What are you using for your metrics to decide when to harvest?

Lizzie

Twofold, or actually it's a threefold question. One, it's very important to us for sustainable yield. So we will never harvest more than what we can grow on an annual basis. And what that actually translates to is we're harvesting less than our sustainable yield on a year-to-year basis.

The second thing that drives that is we typically don't cut larger clearcuts. In Oregon you can cut up to 120 acres. We're at a 30, 40, 50 acre clearcut. And the reason you have to do clearcuts is Douglas fir needs that full sun.

Scott

I was going to ask you that. Because people say clearcuts are ugly, or why are you clearcutting? Talk to me about that.

Lizzie

So having gone to Yale, some of my forestry experiences are in New England. There, you're really growing mature hardwoods and you're looking at your oaks. They do not need full sun to grow. And so you don't need to do a clearcut.

You may be just thinning or doing shelterwoods, which means you're taking less of the trees out of where you've harvested or a site. In Oregon, Douglas fir needs full sun to grow. We also require free to grow, so that over time the trees we cut have to reach a certain height in time.

And in order for that to happen, Douglas fir needs as much sunlight as possible, which means we need to remove trees. You want to remove as many trees as possible in order for the next generation to grow up, and you're removing some of that vegetation that can be invasive species that really compete with it.

Scott

What are you guys struggling with with invasive species? Is it Scotch broom?

Lizzie

Scotch broom's a big one. There's several out there.

Scott

Yeah. What's the worst? Pick the worst.

Lizzie

I'm so new on the job I would have to ask my foresters exactly. But for me, Scotch broom's the easiest one to identify.

Scott

You know the one I hate the most, it's probably not invasive, is poison oak. So I got a patch right here. This is almost healed. For two weeks it's been really gross. Have you had a good case of poison oak yet?

Lizzie

As soon as I moved here to Corvallis, I got a bad case of poison oak. I was running.

Scott

Oh my gosh, it's so bad.

Lizzie

And I am highly, highly allergic.

Scott

Me too.

Lizzie

And so that is the one challenge of operating in these forests.

Scott

I never used to be. I grew up in Alaska, and I don't think they really had a lot of it there, or I didn't get it. And I got to Oregon and probably for the first 20 years did not get it. And then now I'm getting it. My dog will run through a little bit of it and brush against me.

And I'll get it sometimes so bad where it'll get in my bloodstream. I think it's called systemic. And it starts popping out everywhere.

Lizzie

Everywhere.

Scott

And I mean everywhere. And it's miserable.

Lizzie

It's miserable. And then you go on steroids, which I had to do recently.

Scott

Oh, that bad?

Lizzie

It was that bad.

Scott

Oh my God.

Lizzie

But we had just moved. And the good news about steroids is you get a lot of energy, and I was like, "Great. Unpack this box. Unpack this box." It was like the perfect oomph to clear house.

Scott

Yeah. I can spot poison oak a mile away now.

Lizzie

You learn fast, huh?

Scott

Hopefully maybe we'll show a couple pictures on the screen of what it is, but leaves of three. And they don't necessarily have to look like an oak leaf, right? They can be a kind of nice and round leaf. But it's that leaves of three, and if they have thorns then it isn't poison oak.

Lizzie

That's usually, yeah.

Scott

Yeah. If it has thorns you're good. You might get poked, but you're not going to get poison oak.

Lizzie

You're not going to get poison oak. And my challenge in the winter is that it's harder to identify sometimes. And it can be a vine, it can be on the ground. So you really got to be watchful.

Scott

Yep. And I've heard horror stories of people burning it, and then they get it in the smoke, and the oil goes in the smoke, and then they get poison oak in their lungs.

Lizzie

Lungs. Ugh. Yeah.

Scott

I think at some point you were in the hospital at that point.

Lizzie

I think so too. Yeah.

Scott

Oh my gosh. One of the things living in Oregon for, boy, now almost 40 years is I have been able to enjoy Starker Forests. It's really cool that you guys, you're not running people down like, "Get off my land, get off my land." Tell me a little bit more about that.

Lizzie

So we have a free permit system. And we invite hunters, bikers, hikers, horseback riders to come and recreate on our lands. But we want to know who you are. Because it's a community-building relationship. We want to share this community asset.

We believe that the more people are on our property, we have more eyes in terms of helping us to identify fires or any issues on the landscape. In addition, it's a great opportunity for us to invite you in and understand what we're doing in terms of forest operations.

I think one of the biggest challenges to running a forest operation today in Oregon and in this country is the disconnect between urban and rural users. And can we get more urban folks and those who enjoy getting outside to understand what we're doing in the forest?

Scott

Right.

Lizzie

And to understand what our practices are, as opposed to this disconnect.

Scott

Yeah, because for better or for worse, Oregon, its population is urban.

Lizzie

It's urban.

Scott

And that majority is the ones that make the laws. And unfortunately, some of the rural people, the Eastern Oregon, the Central Oregon, we're kind of at the mercy of voters in Portland and Salem and Eugene. So the more we can get those people to understand this way of life and here's what happens.

We are making building products so you can have houses and have toilet paper and all these other things. I think that's a good thing, right?

Lizzie

I think it's a great thing. The other piece of it is we just want to be transparent. Here's what we're doing. Come check out and see what we're doing. We believe very strongly in our stewardship practices, and we want to show you and talk to you about it.

And if you have questions, that's a great opportunity for us to engage and really talk about what are the challenges in terms of growing trees. And we're seeing increasing regulation, to your point, that makes it more and more challenging for us to manage long-term forest operations.

And the key thing for me, from all my experience in federal land management to private land management, how do we increase our adaptability and our nimbleness to respond to either environmental events or new research? And to be those environmental stewards as we find out more and more about the forest that we grow.

And with regulation, that makes it challenging to be nimble.

Scott

Can people just call you guys up and talk to you about this, or will you take appointments or phone calls or what? How can they contact you? How do they know more about it?

Lizzie

There's a couple of ways. One, yes, we would love to chat to people about our practices and invite you to come on the land. We actually host public tours.

We go into K through 12 schools and want to take kids out, both to give them the exposure that if you want to work in natural resources, there's so many jobs out there, come and see what they look like. But also to educate—

Scott

How many people are you guys employing?

Lizzie

So we are foresters, and we grow trees. And so at Starker Forests, we have about 20 employees right now. We employ, through contractors with loggers and planters, about 100 people. And—

Scott

That's a big deal.

Lizzie

It's a big deal. And the other piece of it is we're so tied to our contractors. We would not be successful without them. So how do we create a stronger community and workforce both for our loggers, but us as well, and then also for our end products?

We need mills and manufacturing facilities to help us get a tree into somebody's home in a manufactured way.

Scott

So do you guys contract out the actual harvesting and the cutting and all that, or do you do that in-house?

Lizzie

We do not do any of that in-house. So that is—

Scott

You're really just kind of the management of it.

Lizzie

We grow the trees. And then we contract out—

Scott

Sounds like you're growing jobs, too.

Lizzie

We're growing jobs, too. We grow the trees, and we grow jobs. And one of the things that's so important to us, and probably a unique thing in the forest industry, is that we care so much about our contractors. We want to give them the security and year-round jobs.

And so we will try to ensure that we have places to operate that protects both the land but offers opportunities for job security for our contractors. And so that's something that's very important to us through good times and bad. How do we employ our loggers with consistency and giving them the security that they need?

Scott

Yeah. I grew up in Ketchikan, Alaska, in the Tongass National Forest, and I had a lot of friends who were loggers and in that industry. And I can attest to how hard those people work, how early they get up in the morning. Just hardworking people, and it's a very dangerous job.

I don't think there is very many classifications that pay a higher workers' comp rate than timber cutters do.

Lizzie

Yeah. It is a very dangerous job, and it's one that we're not seeing a ton of new entrants into that field. And so it's something we really want to pride ourselves on in terms of taking care of the contractors that are there. And they do an incredible job.

We have really high-quality local contractors who are generational.

Scott

That's awesome.

Lizzie

Many of them—

Scott

Yeah, that's right.

Lizzie

—have been working for us for years, and going back to their fathers' fathers. And so Starker has a strong relationship. Many of these companies are family companies all the way through, and we're so reliant on each other.

Scott

That's cool.

Lizzie

One of the things, though, that I do want to talk about is the Starker ethos in terms of how do we care for our people and our contractors and address some of the workforce challenges we see in the future. We just recently opened up a daycare.

Scott

A daycare?

Lizzie

A daycare.

Scott

Starker Forests Daycare.

Lizzie

Starker Forests Daycare. It's called Betty's House. And it's after Elizabeth Starker, who was the grandmother of the fourth-generation owners right now. And she really cared for the staff, would always bake cookies, and we have taken her house, which is on the property, and converted it to a 12-kid childcare center.

And this is in partnership with Old Mill, who's an incredible nonprofit.

Scott

Okay, yeah. I know them.

Lizzie

And the goal here, we realized, is that it's really hard to work our forestry hours or our contractor hours, which the day starts at 6:00 a. m.

Scott

That's right.

Lizzie

And so our daycare is opening at 6:30 to 4:00 in order to help any of our family, contractors, and our staff bring their kids to work, so to speak, for me, and create a better work-life balance and create something that is a family.

Scott

I love it. That is totally unique. Raul, we need a Titan Podcast daycare.

Lizzie

We want to see more companies do this. How do you take care of your employees? How do you make it easier to have a family and go to work?

Scott

What I haven't heard yet is how do we make the most money possible. You guys are like, "How do we make this last for our children? How are we taking care of families, work-life balance?" That's really cool.

Lizzie

One of the reasons I'm so excited to be at Starker Forests is there's a true belief in the triple bottom line. We need to make money. But making money allows us to give back to the community that gives us so much, and it also allows us to give back to our employees.

And so we really think hard about what our environmental stewardship is, what's our social responsibility, and how can we make a really sustainable, longstanding business for the economics.

Scott

I love that. I love that. It's cool. CEO, that's a neat position. You probably had to fight for that, and not just anyone walks in there and becomes a CEO, so congratulations.

Lizzie

Thanks.

Scott

I own a couple businesses, but anybody could own a business. You can have a lemonade stand, that's a business, and be a business owner, but to be a CEO of a big company, that's pretty cool. Congratulations.

Lizzie

Thank you. It's a great honor.

Scott

So what do you do when you're not working? What are your hobbies? What do you like to do?

Lizzie

So this weekend, actually, there is a race, a trail race on Starker Lands. And I love going trail running. It is my mental release and relaxation. I have two kids at home. I used to be able to say two months ago, two under two, but they're—

Scott

Okay. Wow, that's young still.

Lizzie

—two years old and nine months.

Scott

Oh, my gosh.

Lizzie

My husband and I, whenever we need just to let off a little bit of steam, we go out for a run, and we go out into the woods.

Scott

Leave the kids at home, right?

Lizzie

Leave the kids at home. The other one takes care of them. And it's our way—

Scott

Wait, the two-year-old takes care of the nine-month-old?

Lizzie

Yeah, exactly. We started it early here. They learn that at daycare.

Scott

I love that.

Lizzie

Yeah. But yeah, that's what I love to go do. I love being with friends. And one of the biggest challenges moving to Corvallis is building a new community. But it's also one of the most exciting things to do is getting to meet new people. And so that's something I'm working on right now.

Scott

Love it. Thanks for coming on. We got a little bit of a game here we're going to do. And I'm going to do a Would You Rather, Forestry Edition, okay? Don't look at the questions in advance. So are you ready?

Lizzie

Yes.

Scott

Would you rather manage a forest with perfect trees but difficult neighbors, or a forest with difficult trees but great neighbors?

Lizzie

Ooh. Social license is huge, so great neighbors.

Scott

Great neighbors. Wow, so you'd go for the difficult trees. Okay, would you rather explain forestry to a room full of kindergartners or a room full of angry adults at town hall?

Lizzie

Oh, easy. Kindergartners.

Scott

I kind of knew where that one was going. Would you rather have perfect weather all year but terrible road access, or great road access but unpredictable weather?

Lizzie

Unpredictable weather.

Scott

Really? So tell me about that. The roads are important for you.

Lizzie

Roads are important for us. Unpredictable weather, we can manage that. We're currently facing it every year.

Scott

That's right.

Lizzie

Wind storms, snow storms.

Scott

That's right.

Lizzie

And there's things you can learn about that.

Scott

Okay, would you rather be known for a company with the best timber or a company with the best community relationships? I think I know the answer where this is going.

Lizzie

Well, actually, we have both, so that one, I don't think—

Scott

No, you've got to pick one.

Lizzie

I have to pick one?

Scott

You got to pick one.

Lizzie

Community relations.

Scott

But then you might not have a job later, though.

Lizzie

I might not have a job, so timber? Yeah. Thank God that's not a choice we actually have to make.

Scott

Would you rather spend a day planting trees, walking a harvest site, checking recreational access, or talking with students about forestry?

Lizzie

Ooh, I personally might enjoy the talking to students, but I also would love to— It is so cool to go out and see operations. So, one of two things.

Scott

I love that. I love people working with their hands and seeing that.

Lizzie

It is amazing work that they do out there.

Scott

Yeah, it is so cool. Would you rather solve wildfire risk or public misunderstanding about forestry?

Lizzie

Public misunderstanding.

Scott

Okay, I like that. Would you rather have your company be described as innovative, trustworthy, resilient, or responsible?

Lizzie

Trustworthy.

Scott

Trustworthy, I like that. Because if you have trustworthy, you kind of have everything else, right?

Lizzie

You are responsible. You should be innovating.

Scott

Yeah, that's right. Would you rather make a decision that pays off quickly but only for a few years, or take 20 years to pay off but helps the next generation?

Lizzie

Easy. 20 years.

Scott

Yeah, I love that. So that's why they hired you, right? Would you rather every Oregonian understand how forestries are managed, where wood products come from, or what private forest lands contribute to communities?

Lizzie

That one's a selfish one. How forests are managed.

Scott

Yes.

Lizzie

But we need them all.

Scott

Again, I think people's exposure to it is like, "Oh, there's a clear cut. It's ugly clear cut." But there's so much more to it than that.

Lizzie

There's so much more complexity. And if you look at the disturbances that are happening, you asked about unpredictable weather. If you look at those disturbances, we are, to our best ability, managing some of our clear cuts like a disturbance. And so we are trying to mimic what nature does naturally.

Scott

Yeah. Nature takes care of itself a lot with forest fires, right? That's like a whole other episode. Do you let them burn? Do you not let them burn? We're not even going to go there.

Lizzie

We're not even going there.

Scott

All right. Do we have another question? Okay, would you rather have a forest that is easier to manage or more interesting to manage?

Lizzie

More interesting.

Scott

Yeah, because things are interesting, right?

Lizzie

Well, all of them are interesting. Each are so site-specific. We have a lot to learn from them.

Scott

Yeah. Well, thanks for coming on today, Lizzie. This was awesome. Learned more about Starker Forests. That's pretty cool. So that does it for this episode of Titans and Tangents. Big thanks for our guest for sitting down with us and sharing the story behind the work.

So we created this show to highlight the titans in our community, people doing meaningful work, building real businesses, and leading in their own lane. And that's what Titan Podcasting helps businesses do, too. In crowded fields, it's not enough just to say you're good at what you do.

A podcast lets people hear how you think, what you know, and why people should trust you. And Titan Podcasting helps turn those conversations into polished content that positions your business as a subject matter expert. I'm Scott Kemp. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Lizzie. I kind of mixed the two together there.

And we'll see you next time on Titans and Tangents.